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All about DEP

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Forum Name: General Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss anything about our services here.
URL: http://forum.entropiapartners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=492
Printed Date: 17 Dec 2018 at 8:40pm


Topic: All about DEP
Posted By: Tia
Subject: All about DEP
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 12:59pm
Have questions, suggestions, doubts etc about http://forum.entropiapartners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=481&FID=16&PR=3&title=introducing-ep-debentures" rel="nofollow - DEP: EntropiaPartners Debentures ? Discuss here..



Replies:
Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

Have questions, suggestions, doubts etc about http://forum.entropiapartners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=481&FID=16&PR=3&title=introducing-ep-debentures" rel="nofollow - DEP: EntropiaPartners Debentures ? Discuss here..

Wow, looks interesting - can I buy 100 of them? :)

I am concerned a little on how 6% can be generated monthly...

Questions on the "Invest" page:

 - What does "# DEP have been booked so far. Best rate offered is # PED / DEP" actually mean?  The # of DEP that have been sold or just booked (and the possibility of not getting a DEP).  
- Is the best rate just the highest rate offered on one order? 

Late,
Norian


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Administrator
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Norian Norian wrote:

Wow, looks interesting - can I buy 100 of them? :)

I am concerned a little on how 6% can be generated monthly...

Questions on the "Invest" page:

 - What does "# DEP have been booked so far. Best rate offered is # PED / DEP" actually mean?  The # of DEP that have been sold or just booked (and the possibility of not getting a DEP).  
- Is the best rate just the highest rate offered on one order? 

Late,
Norian
Look at it like an IPO. We are offering DEPs at a base price of 10 PED each. You can make a bid on x DEPs. You can make multiple bids. It is a pre-booking, but it does not guarantee that all your offers will be fulfilled. The page displays how many DEPs have been booked so far, and what is the maximum bid offered so far.

At the end of the process 1000 DEPs will be awarded to top bidders. We are planning to release 10,000 DEPs in next few weeks. Response to this prebooking, and P2P trading volumes will help us decide the timings.

Good luck trading DEPs. :)


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Administrator Administrator wrote:

Originally posted by Norian Norian wrote:

Wow, looks interesting - can I buy 100 of them? :)

I am concerned a little on how 6% can be generated monthly...

Questions on the "Invest" page:

 - What does "# DEP have been booked so far. Best rate offered is # PED / DEP" actually mean?  The # of DEP that have been sold or just booked (and the possibility of not getting a DEP).  
- Is the best rate just the highest rate offered on one order? 

Late,
Norian
Look at it like an IPO. We are offering DEPs at a base price of 10 PED each. You can make a bid on x DEPs. You can make multiple bids. It is a pre-booking, but it does not guarantee that all your offers will be fulfilled. The page displays how many DEPs have been booked so far, and what is the maximum bid offered so far.

At the end of the process 1000 DEPs will be awarded to top bidders. We are planning to release 10,000 DEPs in next few weeks. Response to this prebooking, and P2P trading volumes will help us decide the timings.

Good luck trading DEPs. :)

When I place bids on the open market, I have access to Level 2 quotes.  Here, I only have access to highest bid... :(

The next 10000 DEP released, will those also be offered at 10 PED / DEP?  If so, then I'm betting that EP users don't have 100,000 PED on hand (since only 329,885 PED has been earned since the start of EP), I'll speculate and wait to snatch some up at 10 :)

Late,
Norian


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 3:04pm
Does have early booking any advantage?

Just an easy example:
What if 4 people book 500 at 10 PED?
Everyone gets 250 in the end?
Or do the first 2 get 500?

And can i pre-book more EPD than i have PEDs on my balance?


Posted By: Administrator
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Prosac Prosac wrote:

Does have early booking any advantage?

Just an easy example:
What if 4 people book 500 at 10 PED?
Everyone gets 250 in the end?
Or do the first 2 get 500?

And can i pre-book more EPD than i have PEDs on my balance?
Suppose at the end we get following offers in order of decreasing offer rate and time:

Total 480 DEP @ 13 PED each
Total 320 DEP @ 12 PED each
Total 180 DEP @ 11 PED each
Total 200 DEP @ 10 PED each

Each line above is a cumulative of many orders.

Now best rates will get preference. So orders in first 3 lines will be fulfilled first. That will leave us with 20 DEPs. These 20 will be given go to the offer which was placed first (time) @ 10 PED each.

You cannot prebook DEPs worth more than your EP balance.


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 3:22pm
Thanks for the info.

Only showing best rate is bad, i can make a pre-booking, where i bid only on one EPD but a high amount.

And please be aware, that there is a bug in the daily raffle winners list, it won't show the actual ones.


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Administrator Administrator wrote:

You cannot prebook DEPs worth more than your EP balance.


Please check, i prebooked 400 and i don't have 4000 PEDs on my balance

Edit: Thanks for fixing. Is the amount of booked EPD right then?


Posted By: Administrator
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Prosac Prosac wrote:

Originally posted by Administrator Administrator wrote:

You cannot prebook DEPs worth more than your EP balance.


Please check, i prebooked 400 and i don't have 4000 PEDs on my balance

Edit: Thanks for fixing. Is the amount of booked EPD right then?

Thanks for the heads up. Coding bug related to data type conversion. Fixed now.


Posted By: Ovolon
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 5:14pm
wow... great... congratulation to all who have no tasks since weeks and withdrawed this night;
like me 7h before introducing the Debentures Ouch


Posted By: Yagna
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Ovolon Ovolon wrote:

wow... great... congratulation to all who have no tasks since weeks and withdrawed this night;
like me 7h before introducing the Debentures Ouch


count me in. managed to get 2 deps. btw, I am sure we will get some good offers in the p2p market.


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Yagna Yagna wrote:

Originally posted by Ovolon Ovolon wrote:

wow... great... congratulation to all who have no tasks since weeks and withdrawed this night;
like me 7h before introducing the Debentures Ouch


count me in. managed to get 2 deps. btw, I am sure we will get some good offers in the p2p market.

You didn't get any yet FYI!  You are booked for 2, that doesn't mean 2 will be sold to you (if you are outbid 1000 times)


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Ovolon Ovolon wrote:

wow... great... congratulation to all who have no tasks since weeks and withdrawed this night;
like me 7h before introducing the Debentures Ouch

I feel your pain!  Hope you can get in next offering.


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Yagna
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Norian Norian wrote:

Originally posted by Yagna Yagna wrote:

Originally posted by Ovolon Ovolon wrote:

wow... great... congratulation to all who have no tasks since weeks and withdrawed this night;
like me 7h before introducing the Debentures Ouch


count me in. managed to get 2 deps. btw, I am sure we will get some good offers in the p2p market.

You didn't get any yet FYI!  You are booked for 2, that doesn't mean 2 will be sold to you (if you are outbid 1000 times)

at present I am at highest offer. lets see. :) 6 days to go.


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Yagna Yagna wrote:

Originally posted by Norian Norian wrote:

Originally posted by Yagna Yagna wrote:

Originally posted by Ovolon Ovolon wrote:

wow... great... congratulation to all who have no tasks since weeks and withdrawed this night;
like me 7h before introducing the Debentures Ouch


count me in. managed to get 2 deps. btw, I am sure we will get some good offers in the p2p market.

You didn't get any yet FYI!  You are booked for 2, that doesn't mean 2 will be sold to you (if you are outbid 1000 times)

at present I am at highest offer. lets see. :) 6 days to go.

Ah, you are probably good then! :)

11.2 though?  Really?  2 months to break even...


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 7:16pm
Maybe i should set a prebook for 1 DEP at 20 PED to disguise it a bit LOL


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Prosac Prosac wrote:

Maybe i should set a prebook for 1 DEP at 20 PED to disguise it a bit LOL

Shhh!! Stop revealing my strategy!

All it would cost you is 0.10 PED to cancel the order on the 9th...


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 8:05pm
Just because someone bid higher than someone else does not mean that a lower bidder will be left in the cold.

If it says the highest bidder is 11.7 ped, that might only be for one piece of the 1000.  Your bid of 10 can still very easily win.


That does bring a question to mind though.  Just because someone 'bid' a certain price, does that mean they have to pay that price, or it just puts them on top of others bidding lower when they finally do come out?

ie lets say someone bid 11.7 ped for one, but only 1000 of them sold, do they get one of those for the baseline 10 ped or the 11.7 they said they'd pay for it?

sluggo


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As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 8:10pm
Uhm, of course they have to pay what they've bid, otherwise it would be just senseless.


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 8:34pm
Not necessarily Prosac.  If it's something like E bay then that could be their max bid they are willing to bid, but could get it cheaper if nobody else drives price up to that point.  They are essentially saying, this is the most I am willing to pay, but it could go for cheaper.

Since it is not pointed out specifically that is why I am asking. 

Let's say only 800 shares sell this first go around.  Since they started at 10, that is what they should go at, since there is no reason to bid higher, because there are enough shares that you are not forced to outbid someone to get one of them.  The higher than 10 price only applies if there are more bids than shares available to pick who gets them.

sluggo.


-------------
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Explorer
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 9:40pm
Hi,

I have problem with buying DEPs. When I click to Invest page I can see form where I can place order, but all buttons are not active for me. I can not "Place Order" I can not change vallue in box with default vallue 10 PED. Only what I can do is fill "ammount" and thats all.

I dont use any special modules in my google chrome so I dont know where is problem.

Only what I have in mind that I have same IP as my GF which is working on EP too, but rly have no idea if same IP can affect that.

Can someone advice me please? I Want to preorder few of them, just for that feel Smile


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 9:41pm
Okay, your point.

But i was already charged for my bid and if someone bids more than 10, he maybe could have bid on even more shares.

But i don't care, i'll wait and see.


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 11:10pm
Explorer, I seen the same problem when I experimented with it earlier.  It took about a minute for the buttons to start working for me.  Not sure why that is happening, it might be the high server load now.

Try getting into that page, waiting a minute or three then try the buttons again and see if they work for you.

If not then this is something the big boss programmer person will have to look into.

sluggo


-------------
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Explorer
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2014 at 11:35pm
Thank you Sluggo for answer. 

I tried wait before for more then 20 minutes, but then i gave it up and went to take bath. Now its working fine so for everyone else who will have same problem..... Take a bath and then its gonna work Tongue


Posted By: MayBe
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 1:12pm
This looks very interesting; a tempting offer to keep your earned peds invested here, instead of withdrawing them into the game, where they soon will be spend.
Up until a certain price it appears to be a good investment.
It's the same reward as clicking on a video, except without the whole clicking bit. Wink
So to make an informed decision, I have a few questions. And hopefully it can also help somebody who had the same question.

"DEPs purchased will start paying from next day. For the same day, those DEPs will not be paying."
"Once you place a sell order, those DEPs will stop paying." "DEP offered for sale will become ineligible for earnings."
"You will be able to sell back DEPs to EP anytime at the base rates, but your account will be credited back after 28 days."
"There will be a fixed 0.5% transaction fee each DEP when you sell it to other users or hand it back to EP."
"Non paying DEPs will take priority when placing sell orders."

The rule that a bought DEP only starts to pay out the next day is logical, and the 28 days wait to be credited (after a sale to EP) seems a bit long, but can be seen as a practical necessity.
What I don't understand is: why a DEP offered for sale will become ineligible for earnings.
You haven't sold it yet, so it's still yours: why would it not pay out until the day it is actually sold?
Especially because the last rule states: "Non paying DEPs will take priority when placing sell orders." That implies there are also 'paying' DEPs that could be sold. But any DEP put up for sale becomes non-paying, so I'm a bit confused about this.
Even though it would probably encourage people to hang on to their DEPs instead of putting them up for sale; is there a particular reason for this rule?


"It will not be possible to place buy offers at a set price. All purchases will be made from open sell orders with the lowest ask price(s)."

If you can't place a buy offer for a set price, does this mean it will be a sort of 'non-bidding AH' system; where you place your DEPs for a specific sale price, and whichever DEP is priced the lowest will automatically be sold to the first buyer in line? Did I understood the buy/sell system correct like that?
Somehow that would appear to subdue price growth? Since the buyer will always be guaranteed the lowest offer at the time, unlike a normal auction / P2P trade.
(Btw, funny how in pre-booking, the DEP goes to the highest bidder, while in P2P the DEP goes to the lowest seller. Wink


"You will be able to sell back DEPs to EP anytime at the base rates,"
"EntropiaPartners reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users."
"The seller will be charged 0.5% of the total transaction value upon sale."

The base price is 10 ped, but in the pre-booking you'll likely need to bid more to obtain some, and afterwards P2P trading will (probably) see prizes rise too. So if after a while the prizes have gone up, and EP were to decide to do a (forced) buyback (which, according to the disclaimer is possible): are those DEPs bought back for the base price of 10 ped, or for the last price the present owner paid for them?
Because the rules state that a (voluntary) sale back to EP, initiated by a DEP holder, would be redeemed at the base rate. Having the possibility of an involuntary buy back at base rate hanging over your head, seems not a very attractive prospective.
(Also, a small detail: since there is a fixed transaction fee of 0,5%, does this mean that if such a forced buyback should occur, you still would have to pay that fee?)


"EP will release DEPs periodically and based on demand."
"At the end of the process 1000 DEPs will be awarded to top bidders. We are planning to release 10,000 DEPs in next few weeks. Response to this prebooking, and P2P trading volumes will help us decide the timings."

Even though it is a fixed pay per DEP, and not a percentage: not having a fixed amount of issued DEPs is a factor that investors usually don't really enjoy that much.
The price per DEP is depending on supply and demand. If the supply now is (planned) at 1000 plus 10.000 (or 10k in total), buyers will bid with that amount in mind.
If later on suddenly there are additional batches of 10 or 100k DEPs issued, the supply changes, and the demand will follow: influencing the price.
So would it perhaps be possible to inform us of a firm(er) or a maximum number?


And I'm sorry for the individuals who just made a withdrawal, that's really bad luck.
Since this is done with locally earned currency, and it's not possible to deposit here; it might be appreciated if there would be an announcement beforehand, so people could handle their withdrawals accordingly. Maybe for the next batch?

ps. Sorry for the wall of text. Embarrassed


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 2:15pm
All very good questions MayBe.

On the 'late notice' nobody knew about it (except one person Big smile ) until the announcement yesterday.

In a way there is an advance notice given, it doesn't start until the 10th, and there will be other opportunities for them if you miss the first batch because of low ped balance.

To be honest on that, no matter when they would have announced it, since EP continually gives payouts, someone would have just cashed out and be upset.

This is just 1000 out of a potential of 10000 being offered.  Hold your PED and get in on the next one should work.  Let's hope crowdflower starts pushing out more tasks for us now that the new year is in and everyone's cured from their hangovers Wink

sluggo


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As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by Sluggo Sluggo wrote:

To be honest on that, no matter when they would have announced it, since EP continually gives payouts, someone would have just cashed out and be upset.

The point no one mentioned is, Tia still can't refill PEDs, so everyone who didn't cashed out getting the appreciation in being able to buy more DEPs

Originally posted by MayBe MayBe wrote:

ps. Sorry for the wall of text. Embarrassed

I appreciate your well-conceived and informative posts.


Posted By: Ovolon
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by MayBe MayBe wrote:

"You will be able to sell back DEPs to EP anytime at the base rates,"
"EntropiaPartners reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users."
"The seller will be charged 0.5% of the total transaction value upon sale."

The base price is 10 ped, but in the pre-booking you'll likely need to bid more to obtain some, and afterwards P2P trading will (probably) see prizes rise too. So if after a while the prizes have gone up, and EP were to decide to do a (forced) buyback (which, according to the disclaimer is possible): are those DEPs bought back for the base price of 10 ped, or for the last price the present owner paid for them?
Because the rules state that a (voluntary) sale back to EP, initiated by a DEP holder, would be redeemed at the base rate. Having the possibility of an involuntary buy back at base rate hanging over your head, seems not a very attractive prospective.
(Also, a small detail: since there is a fixed transaction fee of 0,5%, does this mean that if such a forced buyback should occur, you still would have to pay that fee?)


This is a point I thought about too.
What if the prizes will rise (example 25 PED) and EP decide to expropriate a special person or may all?
You have payed 25 PED, EP take your new DEP and pay you 9.95 PED (10 PED-0.5%) for this DEP
= 15 PED loss for nothing and the next DEP (in real yours) is ready for offer someone will pay may 25 PED and later get
expropriate to start the carousel again...


Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 3:51pm
Muppet or I will reply to all this soon. At present we are a little busy with the server. We are upgrading the memory and processor; so there will be a shutdown of 30 minutes or so.

I cannot personally drop PEDs in-game atm. But I am buying PED from other big players in game (this is legal). So PED reserve is not an issue. DEPs are meant to support EP with further expansions. We are expecting 5000-6000 new users in next 30-50 days. :)

And there is more.. Will keep you updated.


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 5:10pm
Looks like the server upgrade did the trick.  The site is almost immediate now, instead of waiting 30 seconds for a page to answer and render.   Good job there Tia.

sluggo


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As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Sluggo Sluggo wrote:

Looks like the server upgrade did the trick.  The site is almost immediate now, instead of waiting 30 seconds for a page to answer and render.   Good job there Tia.

sluggo
Thanks to all of you for the patience. The server was down for mere 22 minutes. We will be adding more in near future and your support is most appreciated.

Hardware updates give me tension. I will ask for your leave now. Saturday is waiting....

Good luck Smile


Posted By: Prosac
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

We are expecting 5000-6000 new users in next 30-50 days. :)


Lol, i read 30-50 years and thought wtf?

100 new users per day, i think ep will be really growing big.


Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Prosac Prosac wrote:

Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

We are expecting 5000-6000 new users in next 30-50 days. :)


Lol, i read 30-50 years and thought wtf?

100 new users per day, i think ep will be really growing big.
Few weeks exercise in EU gave us more than 3000 users in 4 weeks. Now we stand at 5900 EU users. In total EP has 23700+ registered users. Now we are eyeing this virtual space which has way more users than EU; and based on 12 months experience we are sure to get attention of at least 5000.


Posted By: babaroga1x
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 10:01pm
Hi to all!

Very nice idea this DEP... i am sure lot of people will try to get some of them, including me...

But before purchasing some of Deps, i have some questions:

1.) in case of legal dispute, all problems will be solved accordingly to article 12 of User agreement?
(independet Arbritator identified by EntropiaPartners, location Mumbai, English language)

2.) If user is not satisfied by arbitration, he can start a lawsuit in Mumbai, India?

3.) Third question, based on previous two... Are owners of EP ready to indentify themself? Who are they, where they life etc. Because, basically they are asking for a loan.

4.) Have you solved your techical problems? When will be contributor awards payed out? Are you able to pay out your users now, their earnings, or you are waiting for a cash from the loan?

5.) What do you need this cash for? More details please, we just got info about some future posts with info, on this forum...

I am sorry i have to ask this hard questions, but i am sure if you answer them honestly and with lot of details, users will trust you even more... and gossips are worst thing in universe...

Baba Star


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 11:10pm
Barbaroga Ill let Tia answer these questions but I will answer one of them right now because I feel it is critically important for folks to know.

EP is totally solvent.  If we had to right now, we could cash out every member completely with no problems.   The money is there. This DEP venture is not to cover any outstanding payments.  Those are already covered.

sluggo.


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As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 11:47pm
I've read through the posts and I don't see the great deal everybody's talking about. Here are some figures...

@ 0.02 PED a day...

7 Days = 0.14 PED
31 Days = 0.62 PED
365 Days = 7.3 PED

Even money day assuming a 10 PED starting price is 500 days which is approx 1 year 4 months and 3 weeks.

Even money day assuming a 15 PED starting price is 780 days which is approx 2 years and 1 month and 3 weeks.

Thoughts?


Posted By: babaroga1x
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2014 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by Kingy Kingy wrote:

I've read through the posts and I don't see the great deal everybody's talking about. Here are some figures...

@ 0.02 PED a day...

7 Days = 0.14 PED
31 Days = 0.62 PED
365 Days = 7.3 PED

Even money day assuming a 10 PED starting price is 500 days which is approx 1 year 4 months and 3 weeks.

Even money day assuming a 15 PED starting price is 780 days which is approx 2 years and 1 month and 3 weeks.

Thoughts?


if you believe them, it is a great possibility, because in a bank, your interests are 2 - 3 %, yearly...


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 1:35am
Originally posted by Sluggo Sluggo wrote:

Barbaroga Ill let Tia answer these questions but I will answer one of them right now because I feel it is critically important for folks to know.

EP is totally solvent.  If we had to right now, we could cash out every member completely with no problems.   The money is there. This DEP venture is not to cover any outstanding payments.  Those are already covered.

sluggo.

I disagree... I haven't been able to cash out for 2 weeks.


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 3:54am
Norian I have posted several times now in the forums that anyone needing a cashout out, especially the larger amounts to let me know and  can accomodate them.

sluggo


-------------
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Kombinacka
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 4:07am
Yea, I don't have much problem with cash outs. Sometimes I wait for a half day or day, but deffinetly not two weeks. Lately I have more problem with _what_ to cash out :)


Posted By: Ovolon
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 5:55am
Originally posted by Sluggo Sluggo wrote:

Norian I have posted several times now in the forums that anyone needing a cashout out, especially the larger amounts to let me know and  can accomodate them.

Could it be some people don't want you get the 1% transaction commission from EP?
Just think about why!

But now back to topic...
There are some unanswert question regarding DEP's;
like this:
Originally posted by Ovolon Ovolon wrote:

Originally posted by MayBe MayBe wrote:

"You will be able to sell back DEPs to EP anytime at the base rates,"
"EntropiaPartners reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users."
"The seller will be charged 0.5% of the total transaction value upon sale."

The base price is 10 ped, but in the pre-booking you'll likely need to bid more to obtain some, and afterwards P2P trading will (probably) see prizes rise too. So if after a while the prizes have gone up, and EP were to decide to do a (forced) buyback (which, according to the disclaimer is possible): are those DEPs bought back for the base price of 10 ped, or for the last price the present owner paid for them?
Because the rules state that a (voluntary) sale back to EP, initiated by a DEP holder, would be redeemed at the base rate. Having the possibility of an involuntary buy back at base rate hanging over your head, seems not a very attractive prospective.
(Also, a small detail: since there is a fixed transaction fee of 0,5%, does this mean that if such a forced buyback should occur, you still would have to pay that fee?)


This is a point I thought about too.
What if the prizes will rise (example 25 PED) and EP decide to expropriate a special person or may all?
You have payed 25 PED, EP take your new DEP and pay you 9.95 PED (10 PED-0.5%) for this DEP
= 15 PED loss for nothing and the next DEP (in real yours) is ready for offer someone will pay may 25 PED and later get
expropriate to start the carousel again...

'EntropiaPartners reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users' means what?
If "someones nose" you don't like you force him/her to sell back their DEP's to EP for 10 PED (less the 0.5% fee the seller have always to pay) even he/she has buyed/buyed at auction the DEP a few days ago for much more?!
It sounds like communism Confused

Quote
KOMMUNISMUS
Du hast 2 Kühe. Die Regierung nimmt dir beide weg und lässt dir etwas saure Milch.

FASCHISMUS
Du hast 2 Kühe. Die Regierung nimmt dir beide weg, stellt dich als Kuhhirten an und verkauft dir die Milch.

SOZIALISMUS
Du hast 2 Kühe. Die Regierung nimmt dir eine weg und gibt sie deinem Nachbarn.

FEUDALISMUS
Du hast 2 Kühe. Dein Lehensherr nimmt dir etwas Milch weg.

DEMOKRATIE
Du hast 2 Kühe. Eine Abstimmung wird durchgeführt, bei der die Kühe mit 2:1 gewinnen.

LIBERALISMUS
Hau ab! Was ich mit meinen Kühen mache, geht dich nichts an!

KAPITALISMUS
Du hast 2 Kühe. Eine verkaufst du und kaufst dir dafür einen Bullen für die Zucht.

BÜROKRATIE
Du hast 2 Kühe. Um sie zu registrieren, füllst du 23 Formulare in 3facher Ausführung aus und hast deshalb keine Zeit, um sie zu melken.




edit:
But don't forget to ban the forum access;
otherwise the expropriated persons could complain here...


Posted By: Talmaru
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 8:23am
-Deleted by OP-




Posted By: MegaMuppet
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 8:27am
Please stay on topic folks. This thread is about DEP and not some personal issues

Will post a Q&A later today to address some of the points raised here

Cheers
Mega


Posted By: MegaMuppet
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 8:58am
Hello fellow EPians,

Thanks to everybody who showed their interest in DEPs. There have been some valid & detailed questions.

I took the freedom to paraphrase those below & hopefully answered to your satisfaction.

One thing upfront: While we at EP are trying to be as transparent & open to user input as possible, it is indeed not always possible to go all the way!


Q: Why is EP only buying DEPs back at base price where I paid more for them and/or the current price potentially trades at a higher price?

A: Short answer is: Please consider P2P trade & EP buyback in conjunction. The long answer is multifold:
1.) EP is offering the buyback option to cover a scenario where P2P trade volumes are low & trading at base price. DEP holders should always have a fall back option to cash out.
2.) If the current price at P2P trade is higher than base then no one would be inclined to return DEPs back to EP at base price.
3.) The fixed base price also covers EP against potential losses resulting from users trying to manipulate the market (On a side note, P2P trade prices will have their minimum price capped at base price)

**************************************************

Q: What if EP forces a buy-back at base price and I have paid a lot more than that

A: EP will not do enforced buy-backs!
 
When stating that 'EP reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users' then we want to cover potential scenarios where EP may offer an ad-hoc (one off) buy back scheme at some point in the future & at a price to be communicated at that time. If such scenario arises then it will entirely voluntary to opt in or not. No plans have been made or discussed regarding this.


**************************************************

Q: What to do in case of user vs EP disputes, legal or otherwise?

A: This is not just a question since DEPs are on the cards. Every user can get in touch with us when problems related to EP are encountered. We feel that we have a proven track record of trying to do right by our users. There are situations where we have to refer you or the issue you raised to our partners. (i.e. issues with CF tasks)

If all efforts are to no avail then users have certain options according to the laws in their country which we at EP cannot possibly lay out for everyone.


**************************************************

Q: What are the expansion plans that EntropiaPartners has indicated as part of this proposal?

A: We have brought forward a first minor step already by upgrading our servers to improve website performance.

Furthermore we are planning an investment in SecondLife to increase brand awareness & thus user numbers & revenues.

We have a number of further additions to our platform that we will not yet communicate merely for competitive reasons. These will take until Q2/Q3 2014 to realise and will be detailed in due course.

**************************************************

Q: What are the short & long term plans regarding the total number of DEPs issued?

A: An important question especially for users interested in the P2P trade aspect of DEPs. I will therefore make a number of points regarding this. Please accept those for the time being even if some will not be definitive.

* As stated in the forum the short term vision is to issue a total of 10000 DEPs over the course of Q1/2014
* Any potential future issues of DEPs (in addition to the planned 10k) are neither planned yet nor envisaged. Which is not to say it will never happen.
* Any potential future issues (in addition to the planned 10k) would include some form of preferential treatment of current DEP holders. This could include offerings to current holders before offerings to non-holders, discounted prices etc.
* Any potential future issues (in addition to the planned 10k) would be given a longer notice period than this initial offering. This would be to allow DEP holders make informed decisions about their respective course of action.

**************************************************

Q: Why the 28d waiting period when returning DEPs to EP

A: This is a measure to allow EP to plan payment liabilities with sufficient lead time. While we do not foresee a sudden high volume sell off in DEPs it is prudent to cater for such scenario.


**************************************************

Q: Why are DEPs that have been set for sale ineligible for interest


A: We understand that this measure may be unpopular but we would like to stress at this point that EP wants to steer users towards the investment aspect of DEPs rather than the P2P trading aspect. Consequently we introduced this rule as a trade off to be considered by DEP holders.

**************************************************

Now let me finish this Q&A by saying that we at EntropiaPartners have not done something like this before. So rules might not always be completely clear at first and some users even see the chance for abusing them.

So you are encouraged to post queries and give constructive feedback.

EP on the other hand can & if necessary will change/add rules around future DEP issues and/or the trading of existing ones.

We are aware that some users will always cry foul or have trust issues with what EP is implementing. It's a fact, both, you as the user & we as EP have to live with.

We will not manage to please everyone all the time. We can only stick to what we have been doing & saying all along. Which is to do right by our user base.

I will do another round of Q&A should the need arise. If you have more queries regarding the answers given here then please use 'quotes' to make my job easier.

Thanx & regards
Mega


Posted By: ShortBus
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 4:19pm
The DEP trouble me. the return is very high, with make me think that EP wants player to bid up the price.  but as they have the right to call the DEP at anytime for 10 PED it leave anyone open to suffer a large loss. 

I don't believe that this EP intent, and here are some idea to protect player investments:

1) end date, this is the day the EP stop paying interest and refund the 10 PED. player can reinvest at that time.

2) set buy back price at the amount the players paid for the DEP. keeps math easy to find rate of return.

3) don't let the price above set level, may want to charge 5X as much for a DEP. no market to fight with and safe returns.

each of these change will have problems for EP. but as thing sit i can see ever paying more then 10 PED for one. 


Posted By: Ovolon
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by MegaMuppet MegaMuppet wrote:


Q: What if EP forces a buy-back at base price and I have paid a lot more than that

A: EP will not do enforced buy-backs!
 
When stating that 'EP reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users' then we want to cover potential scenarios where EP may offer an ad-hoc (one off) buy back scheme at some point in the future & at a price to be communicated at that time. If such scenario arises then it will entirely voluntary to opt in or not. No plans have been made or discussed regarding this.

[...]

So you are encouraged to post queries and give constructive feedback.

Thx MegaMuppet for rectify the first notice wich opened wide the door for speculations...
And now my "
constructive feedback":
Next time do "business as usual". If EP try to use "lawyer language" then even phrase it complete too! All or nothing; fragments only create this unnecessary, needless, unfounded agitation.
FIRST a completely FAQ would prevent it...


Posted By: Talmaru
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 11:45pm
The only person agitated here is you.
I agree its unnecessary, needless, and unfounded.




Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 12:06am
The reason the 'lawyer language' is being broken out is because some folks appear to be bent on picking a fight and ridiculing anything said.  That happens, which is why we have lawyers and their language, to protect business' from ill intenters.

sluggo


-------------
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Ovolon
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 4:30am
For what you have them if they didn't do their job?!
'EP reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users'
= EP buyes DEP when EP want from who EP want at base prize even the user has buyed this DEP for much more (expropriation)

But if it's like MegaMuppet wrote on voluntary base it should be named with:
'EP reserves the right to buy back DEPs from individual users on voluntary base'

All
"first semester law student" (and I would say: even all persons who use their head not only for wearing a hat) know the difference the 3 red highlighted words makes!

Scenario 1:
it's planned to
expropriate special users (the official statement say it clear you reserves the right to expropriate persons)
Scenario 2:
the
author only try to write it "good sounding" without any
juridical knowledge


I only do what in past some people insinuate me not to do:
I read what is written.
And written was in this
meaning: EP expropriate special users.
So I asked (after an other person also
point out this problem) once and don't get any answer although there are 6 replies from 2 different EP related persons after my question.
I asked twice (without asking if the REP's
hush up my question intentionally I have had asked if I would be as someone always insinuate me I would be) and finally I got an answer (again: thx MegaMuppet),
thanked for it,
excused my legitimate doubt (yes: LEGITIMATE cause the wording sayed clearly: expropriation)
and give demanded
feedback that a correctly notice would prevent arise such problems from the start (and it's not the first time CORRECTLY notices straight at the beginning would have avoided such "useless stress").

It was only 1
justified question (2 times cause the first time I was ignored) and 1 feedback I'm now beaten for, again.
But I know: I'm a whiner/troll/what ever words you always use with pleasure...


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 9:34am


Sound's like the sniping has come to an end! So, back on topic, why is EP releasing these DEP's but not letting players deposit into the website, it seems counterproductive if the purpose is to raise capitol for expansion. It seems to me the way it's going at the minute, with every DEP bought the only thing that really changes is that your total potential website payout diminishes, there's no "real" cash injection just less to pay on the balance sheet.

Wouldn't it make sense to allow for a two way flow of PED into and out of the game?

By two way flow I don't mean depositing direct to EP as I realize the charges involved for purchasing PED blah blah blah I meant being able to "Request Deposit" ingame that would be credited to your EP account?


Posted By: Wauspaus
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 9:49am
Always sad to see someone pushing others to the limit that they are truely fed up with them.

In anycase, the request a deposit thing might sound good, but that would actually contradict what the setup of the DEP's would be. That you can buy them via means you worked for with EP. If you can deposit that means you can just actually put real money into it (aka deposit using credit card ingame, then deposit it from game onto EP) and buy a rediculous amount of DEP's, which technically you dont lose anything on.

As for all the legal talk here. I think people should lighten up a bit, especially legal talk is really borring to go through and yes you will always find something in a certain part of the agreement you dont really agree with. Its not worth the debate or like with Ovolon, worth pissing people off with, because it will not change regardless wether you agree with it or not.

EDIT: Small spelling error which destroyed my point a bit XD


Posted By: MegaMuppet
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 10:21am
Took the freedom to mod a few posts that were going personal.

Back on topic: In can see that there are a few more valid queries. Will collect a few more & then post another Q&A. Probably early 8 Jan.

Until then please keep sending your questions

Cheers
M


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 10:33am
Just a quickie.  Bringing money into the DEP thing opens up a big can of worms.  Right now, using the dep you earned, it's not really money, ie you did not put 'real' money into the site, just a little time.  Yes I know semantics but once you allow folks to bring essentialy real money into the place to 'invest'.  Now you are in a whole other big mess in several countries, with investment laws, trading, stuff like that.

It may be a bit inconvenient but it's the safest way and the most legal I guess you could say, to do it.

sluggo


-------------
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Onat42
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 10:35am
To be honest, Im really glad that theres a posbility to let some of my PEDs I earned work for me.

I really dont care whats the purpose of the DEPs, I just guess they want to make this page even more attractive.

If u compare .... u need atm ~1450 PEDs ingame to let it work for u 
here u can start with ~11PEDs (my guess) 


Since Ill "start" playing the game only with a "regular" income generated by the game, this is a really good oportunity to get a basic income .... . 
Ok, Ill start with just 4 and will only invest in more till I have 25 but ...

yea, drawing a conclution I want to point out that I like the Idea really - just sad that the CF tasks suck since I joined a few weeks ago  ^^ 


Posted By: BBGlobal
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2014 at 4:37pm
This is it, when this site was advertised on Caly I was like "hmmm, will be marketing surveys downloads etc".

After getting here and seeing CrowdFlower - for the man that never stops working. I was like, well this keeps my bank account in good standing relative to gaming in EU and offsets markup, I'm thinking of using "profits" from CrowdFlower to purchase an UL w/e        nanochip TEN seems to be flavour atm.

Not really caring how long it takes either, as a $150 CLD nets what? 4PED per week... you can practically get that just watching the site videos daily definitely in 5mins per day. Pretty astounding.

40 DEPs would net 24PED per 30 days? beating a CLD for 400ped of "extra curricular work"




Posted By: MayBe
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 1:15am
Thank you MegaMuppet for answering some questions. It provided some welcome clarity on the subject. Thumbs Up

Two small questions: 
- "sell back DEPs to EP anytime at the base rates" is this comparable to a TT value? 
Meaning, for example, in case of (knock on wood) the termination of EP; would investors be refunded at the base rate? Or is the base rate not guaranteed (in all circumstances)?
 
- "After the pre-booking, more batches will be issued depending on the demand."
Since a booking will not be sold in the (exact) same way as the pre-booking (at least I presume so?), will those DEPs be offered starting at base price too, or will there be a higher/altered starting price?

E.g. for the persons who were not able to bid on the pre-booking, because they didn't have enough Peds to do so (caused by withdrawal just before DEPs pre-booking started, and unavailability of CF tasks to make enough Peds on time) it could be disappointing to not get a shot at DEPs at base rate.
Even though the market will eventually result in raised prices anyway, it still would be nice if at least the equal (starting) opportunity could be available to all. (The last sentence is ofc just a personal opinion.)

                            ____________________ .•°°•. ____________________ 


And I also wanted to remark that I appreciate the automatic ROI calculation on the pre-book page. 
It makes it easier to compare percentages to the other existing Ped investment. A convenient feature. Smile

A quick comparison to give an impression:


Weekly
Monthly

Annual

ped ROI
ped ROI
ped ROI
Base rate







10 ped (DEP) 0,14 ped 1,4%
0,60 ped 6%
7,2 ped 72%
1000 ped (CLD) 4,6 ped 0,46%
18,60 ped 1,86%
223,32 ped 22,33%









Current rate







15 ped (DEP)
1%

4%

48%
1450 ped (CLD)
0,32%

1,28%

15,4%


(Please don't hold me to the numbers: they are taken from PCF, and since I'm clearly not a math star, miscalculations are within the realm of possibility. Feel free to correct me where applicable.)



Posted By: BBGlobal
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 2:46am
It's illustrative! 

From a legal perspective, if EntropiaPartners closed then no one would get paid out imo, due to the simple nature of this website being set up primarily to fund people via game economies. Otherwise it would pay out via Paypal.

Because it clears payouts via seperate servers if the owner had a reason to up and leave, all acquired PED would have been spent.

If it doesn't get spent, there is no reason to close etc. Being invested in Second Life is the only reason to believe EP will be around for the long term, if it was a pop and flop work for me and I drink coffee extravaganza. Why not just re-brand every 3 months.

Also, I'm working on the premise that EP gets 20% for every PED activity carried out by a user, or $6k from entropia participants. That's a nice pasive income. Likely paying the local taxes on property too. Referrals pay an additional 20% to the referrer, which doesn't come from their click value.





Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 4:53am
Originally posted by BBGlobal BBGlobal wrote:

It's illustrative! 

From a legal perspective, if EntropiaPartners closed then no one would get paid out imo, due to the simple nature of this website being set up primarily to fund people via game economies. Otherwise it would pay out via Paypal.

Because it clears payouts via seperate servers if the owner had a reason to up and leave, all acquired PED would have been spent.

If it doesn't get spent, there is no reason to close etc. Being invested in Second Life is the only reason to believe EP will be around for the long term, if it was a pop and flop work for me and I drink coffee extravaganza. Why not just re-brand every 3 months.

Also, I'm working on the premise that EP gets 20% for every PED activity carried out by a user, or $6k from entropia participants. That's a nice pasive income. Likely paying the local taxes on property too. Referrals pay an additional 20% to the referrer, which doesn't come from their click value.
From a legal perspective, even MA can go bankrupt and investors can do nothing about that. Big difference between investing in EP and in EU/SL is that you invest your time and work in EP, while you invest your real cash in EU/SL. Paying via Paypal is always an option with a legal go through from Govt agencies. We have no plans to explore that as of now. We are providing virtual currency for a your gameplay.

EP has already invested a lot in our infrastructure. Investment in SL (~$4600 a year) will be a little more to it.

EP pays on average $6k in EU. Don't forget we also pay in SL/EO. And I wish if we could get 20% for every PED activity.


Posted By: MegaMuppet
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 5:03am
Hi All,

this Q&A is a bit shorter. Hope I didn't forget anything.



Q: Why does EP not accept cash deposit in order for users to invest in DEP

A: While there are technical & other constraints the main reason behind this is to encourage users to make more use of EP features.

**************************************************

2 queries I received in game

Q: Will DEP earnings generate referral commission?

A: No they will not.

**************************************************


Q: Will EP add more offer features as part of their expansion/investment efforts

A: While we are constantly looking for new partners and new ideas the reality is that there are only very few reliable & worthwhile ones.

We don't want to add offerwalls that only pay their users half the time & possibly add unwanted malware to their computers. This makes our choices extremely limited.

**************************************************

Feel free to contact us about any suggestions regarding this.

Cheers
M



Posted By: BBGlobal
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 6:33am
Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

From a legal perspective, even MA can go bankrupt and investors can do nothing about that. Big difference between investing in EP and in EU/SL is that you invest your time and work in EP, while you invest your real cash in EU/SL. Paying via Paypal is always an option with a legal go through from Govt agencies. We have no plans to explore that as of now. We are providing virtual currency for a your gameplay.

EP has already invested a lot in our infrastructure. Investment in SL (~$4600 a year) will be a little more to it.

EP pays on average $6k in EU. Don't forget we also pay in SL/EO. And I wish if we could get 20% for every PED activity.



Exactly, MA going bankrupt would be unforseen, due to the "market confidence" aspect, they'd literally have to declare enough is enough and pay out everyone's PED card, I was in Crown Court back end of last year for a Fraud case where the defendant operated a business like Wonga from 1980'sm but when a big time investor in his company passed on and he didn't have the funds to settle with the estate he was taken to court as a fraud (his second time, and he'd moved the company through 3 countries and put himself as Shadow Director prior to this court case).

And that is the Beauty of EP, the website didn't even take my detals when registering, just sign up and win.

I wouldn't go through Paypal, if I had the ingenuity to set up a website like this, whole lot of legwork for not much extra.


If only you could get 20% per activity, but hey on the bright side business will be trending upwards.

As someone once explained to MA: "If you fix this, then your 10% will be a bigger 10% than it is now and there would be more balanced prizes and longer term players." - EP doesn't have this problem unless cybored


Posted By: MayBe
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 7:33am
Hehe, no need to go for the worst scenario. Wink
Of course, in case of bankruptcy there is no question about what's going to happen. That's an accepted risk inherent to (practically) all investments.
But that's not what I meant:

There are other situations that can occur: "nothing is forever", and the gaming industry is a prime example of that. Interest can wane, ownership can change, or any other RL influence can have it's effect.

So in situations like that; could the base rate of the DEPs be seen as an equivalent of a TT value (like the basic value on a Pedcard)? Meaning that's the minimum rate that your investment is guaranteed for (in a non-disaster situation)?

(Because even though it is non deposited virtual currency, it is still an investment that is held here instead of withdrawing it into the game, where it eventually could be withdrawn into RL currency.)
From a 'contingency plan' point of view, it didn't strike me as such an un-relevant question. ?



Posted By: BBGlobal
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 8:14am
This is why I brought up second life, if EVE or EU close down SL is still going to be chunnering around in the background somewhere, even though I sh*tposted.

Wait is that allowed here?

I know what you are saying about tangible assets, I wouldn't be asking for it back as my primary reason is to decrease spend on MU and be part of the show of support for EU, I do write-down too easily though.

Despite it's faults EU is iconic. It's moreso a shame that ND is treated like he re-mortgaged his house and lost it all (on the forums), but hey I wasn't active at that time.


Posted By: Kombinacka
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by BBGlobal BBGlobal wrote:

This is why I brought up second life, if EVE or EU close down SL is still going to be chunnering around in the background somewhere, even though I sh*tposted.

Wait is that allowed here?

I know what you are saying about tangible assets, I wouldn't be asking for it back as my primary reason is to decrease spend on MU and be part of the show of support for EU, I do write-down too easily though.

Despite it's faults EU is iconic. It's moreso a shame that ND is treated like he re-mortgaged his house and lost it all (on the forums), but hey I wasn't active at that time.

Eh... I am pretty sure that EVE has more chances to survive everything then SL....

(EU is doomed imho, I don't see that existing in few years, but hopefully I am wrong:))


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Kombinacka Kombinacka wrote:

(EU is doomed imho, I don't see that existing in few years, but hopefully I am wrong:))

What makes you say that? There's so much money tied up in it, there's always going to be new players joining, I think the futures bright for EU!


-------------
Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 10:58pm
Kingy new players don't keep a company alive old LOYAL depositing players do.

Look at WoW and EQ for example.  Were doing insanely good then tides shift and poof, pretty much has beens, nothing near what they once were.  Didn't take care of their customers properly if you want my opinion, especially sony.

With all the new stuff coming out and all these new games and alternative worlds, existing ones HAVE to keep their customer base enthralled, or they will lose them to something newer, something better.

When you look at the recent playability of EU, it sucks, terrible lag, I hear many complaining of disconnects and loot been really crappy for most lately except for the 'event'.   People are only going to give them a free pass on it for so long and eventually are going to get really pissed when it continues and say ### this #$#@#$  and move on.

I would like to hear kom's reasoning for why he thinks EU is doomed though.  Not refuting it, just interested in others persepectives when it comes to the survivability of EU and why.

sluggo


-------------
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: Kombinacka
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 11:27pm
Originally posted by Kingy Kingy wrote:

Originally posted by Kombinacka Kombinacka wrote:

(EU is doomed imho, I don't see that existing in few years, but hopefully I am wrong:))

What makes you say that? There's so much money tied up in it, there's always going to be new players joining, I think the futures bright for EU!

You have to wait for withdraw 50 bussiness days now, because they have not that much money. They are probably going to cancel NI and RT soon (hope that is just rumors), they stoped developing new planet and so on.

Many old loyal players (mostly traders and depositers) are leaving, because MA is focusing on adding crappy stuff as looting pill instead of repairing years old bugs...

And so on and so on....

I don't even know why I play it. 90% of time I am in  lag, which usualy cost money. I am so surprised such game can afford to have so crappy technical site... 

And I play it probably because of the chance of Jackpot and also most MMORPG (mostly "F2P") are so crappy and one same as another..


Posted By: Kombinacka
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 11:30pm
I am not saying it is going to end any time soon. But I deffinetly don't think EU could live more then EVE or SL. I think EVE will be there for a veeeeery long time.. SL probably too, but EU has not such a strong player base and I always here how MA is only losing money.

In SL there is the bussiness potential that EU have, but nobody is using it. It would be great to have some big companies to own some planet (or horrible... not sure about that:D).


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 11:34pm
EU is the first MMORPG I've played, I was never interested in WOW or anything like that, to be honest the game playing side of it doesn't really interest me, I like the business side of it!

-------------
Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Kombinacka
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Kingy Kingy wrote:

EU is the first MMORPG I've played, I was never interested in WOW or anything like that, to be honest the game playing side of it doesn't really interest me, I like the business side of it!

And exactly those who take it as a bussiness are most annoyed with it. And if most traders leave....

I am on Arkadia atm., and I did not met anyone who would buy ores or loot for almost a week of being only 10 hours a day (not last two days though:)

Which is anecdotical evidence I know. And as I said it is not that the game would be ending any time soon and I don't think this is the problem. The problems are the canceling planets and withdraws taking longer and longer....


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Kombinacka Kombinacka wrote:

 The problems are the canceling planets and withdraws taking longer and longer....
I look at that a little different, from what I can gather from various articles, Mindark were expecting player boosts with each additional planet introduced and expansions in the game and that just didn't happen, the existing players just spread out meaning less money for MA.

I look at less planets as a good thing! The withdrawals taking longer though is a huge red flag from any persons perspective. It usually indicates that a company is cash poor and is looking to cheat the balance sheet.

If uber crafters leave it's got to leave a gap in the market!




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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Sluggo
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 1:33am
and THAT is what I have seen kill MANY games, mmorpg's AND websites in the past.
Programmers love to program but they are *censored* lazy.  Creative but lazy, they will make all kinds of new stuff, buggy as hell stuff, then REFUSE to fix it, even after years of people bitching about it!!

They make new buggy stuff and leave the old buggy stuff for folks to deal with.  THIS angers a lot of folks over time, it's one of those slow simmer things that boils up over time.

Whether someone finally gets so fed up they do the /ragequit thing or they just eventually get so disgusted that they quietly go in the night, the result is the same.  People AND their money are leaving.

The old crafters leaving would be a VERY bad thing from the players standpoint but from MA's standpoint I don't see it as such.  Awesome crafters are essentially making money in the game,, hand over fist some of them.  THEY are the ones who can actually withdrawl on a regular basis w/o having to wait for an hof or whtever to do so.  They are making their money via their crafting.  Withdrawls take the mone out of the EU economy.  If the people taking the money away, go away, not too bad for the economy then eh?

Mindark is no different than any of the other computer cyber virtual places really.  Show up, make your millions and head to the hills, leave the mess to the sucker who bought it from you or inherited it whatever.   aka the AOL model.

id hate to see it go, and RT going away, YES I can see that as a very strong possibility.  The planet has been monetarily dead for a while now.  The writing is on that wall.  Shame to see it go but if they are not taking care of it, and more importantly it's people, then it's a cancer and needs to go.  Maybe they can move the servers to cut some of the lag on Ark and other useful planets.

Ok to try to get back on topic.  This is one of the reason EP is venturing out, if something does happening that one of the games takes a hard hit, by having a presence in other strong places, it won't put us out of business.

When you have companies like pepsi, nike and their type of money all over SL,  don't think its going away anytime soon really.

New places / games open up every day, who's to say in a year or so someone else doesn't open up a new virtual world that everyone goes OOOH!!! and flocks to.  We can go there as well.   The future has tons of possibilities.

sluggo


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As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everyone is an impossible task. Making them mad now, is a piece of cake :)


Posted By: BBGlobal
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 8:15am
On the website: http://www.mindark.com/

in the bottom right hand corner, they are AA rated with Good Credit Worthiness, issued 9 Jan 2014, however the rating firm is only 4 months old, and the part in the bottom right is updating with "today's date" on a daily basis.

But seeing this made me speculate: http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?257409-Some-stuff-possibly-exchanging-to-crypto-currencies

When Squall doesn't want PED's it rings a bell.






Posted By: Onat42
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 11:10am
hmmm now I also have a question ... 

I know usually u dont transfer money from PED => second Life or what ever .... 

would u transfer it if either SL or Entropia goes bankrupt or how would the fail strategy look like?



I mean since we have the DEP at least the DEPs could be transfered to a new account or?


Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Onat42 Onat42 wrote:

hmmm now I also have a question ... 

I know usually u dont transfer money from PED => second Life or what ever .... 

would u transfer it if either SL or Entropia goes bankrupt or how would the fail strategy look like?



I mean since we have the DEP at least the DEPs could be transfered to a new account or?
That will a doom for many; especially for addicts like me. EP users actually earn EP credits. Based on your registration these credits are displayed in respective virtual currency. As of now there is no such strategy for the scenario you mentioned. Your credit are safe in our vaults. That's all I can say.


Posted By: Onat42
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

That will a doom for many; especially for addicts like me. EP users actually earn EP credits. Based on your registration these credits are displayed in respective virtual currency. As of now there is no such strategy for the scenario you mentioned. Your credit are safe in our vaults. That's all I can say.

so if I buy DEPs with PEDs I can only trade with others who bought it with PEDs or can I also trande with a Second Life resident?

I mean if I can trade DEPs with a second Life registered user, than it shouldnt be a problem on the long term to give DEPs from account A => B and be save that way, no matter if Entropia or 2nd Life goes bankrupt we are always save as long as the EP Vault is good.




Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Onat42 Onat42 wrote:

Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

That will a doom for many; especially for addicts like me. EP users actually earn EP credits. Based on your registration these credits are displayed in respective virtual currency. As of now there is no such strategy for the scenario you mentioned. Your credit are safe in our vaults. That's all I can say.

so if I buy DEPs with PEDs I can only trade with others who bought it with PEDs or can I also trande with a Second Life resident?

I mean if I can trade DEPs with a second Life registered user, than it shouldnt be a problem on the long term to give DEPs from account A => B and be save that way, no matter if Entropia or 2nd Life goes bankrupt we are always save as long as the EP Vault is good.
Right. SL users see the same information as you see. The currency is different. At the root, EP sees all users as same. Its just the display of currencies.

1104 have been booked so far. Best rate offered is 380 L$/DEP.


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

EP users actually earn EP credits. Based on your registration these credits are displayed in respective virtual currency.
That's an interesting point, since registering I was wondering if someone from another game was getting a better rate per video or per task than me!

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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 10:52pm
Almost DEP time, is everyone excited? I know I am, curious to see if my pricing plan works....Hope so....

I'm really childish.


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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Onat42
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 6:22am
Originally posted by Kingy Kingy wrote:

Almost DEP time, is everyone excited? I know I am, curious to see if my pricing plan works....Hope so....

I'm really childish.

me2 Big smile


Posted By: Wauspaus
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 11:09am
Seems like there is a last minute dash for them :) Wonder how many I will get


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 11:17am
I hope my evil plan succeed's, I don't want to pay 15 PED a piece for them and I don't want to wait until the next 100,000 roll out or however many there are.

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Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 11:33am
30 mins to go and then I'm on easy street, I'm having a bit of the good life, early retirement, what's that? 0.02PED a day...

****


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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Wauspaus
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:08pm
Its closed now.... time for the waiting game to see how many I got :)


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:14pm
I've got my mind on my DEP's, my DEP's on mind.

RIP Snoop


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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Wauspaus
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:20pm
I wouldnt stop your micro tasking on EP just yet to persue a music carreer Kingy :P


Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:24pm
The team is verifying the bids now. So far it looks like that bids above 10.11 PED / each DEP will qualify. This may change though.


Posted By: Wauspaus
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:27pm
Darn, I knew I should have put my bid on 11PED :P Ow well, it can still change as Tia said :)


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by TiaWatkins TiaWatkins wrote:

The team is verifying the bids now. So far it looks like that bids above 10.11 PED / each DEP will qualify. This may change though.
FFS! That means I get didly squat, awesome, back to the grind stone for me...

I do have a question though that I don't think has been asked, if someone buys a DEP at x amount but decides to request a refund from EP at 10PED, what happens to that DEP? Is it put back into circulation? Does EP sell it on the P2P market at the going rate?

Not that it really matters I suppose, I'm just being an arse.


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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Wauspaus
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:31pm
I think it will just go back into the circulation
But I think the best option will be to sell it to other players


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:35pm
I only ask because if the 10PED is simply refunded to the user and then the DEP is not added back into circulation it would be possible to run out of them! 

Fair enough that probably wont happen as every user would have to request a refund but is that EP's strategy for getting rid of them so as too lower the dividend payout's by not reintroducing refunded DEP's?




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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: BBGlobal
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 12:46pm
$1000 for the initial float is serious business.


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 1:11pm
- Are EP owners and reps allowed to purchase DEPs?  Thoughts on inside advantage due to knowledge of outstanding liabilities and other factors?

- Winning bids in vault ---> soon - how soon?

- When does next batch for sale go up?  Quantity?

Thanks!


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com


Posted By: Onat42
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 1:27pm
ha! 


got them, only 5 but havent had more :)

payed 10.55 or 10.65 something like that


edit:
when exactly will they pay the interrest?


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by Onat42 Onat42 wrote:

ha! 

got them, only 5 but havent had more :)

payed 10.55 or 10.65 something like that
Once the P2P market becomes available, if you can sell them for 15PED, you can get approx 7 months of interest after 5 days!

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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Wauspaus
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 1:45pm
Aaaah 2 bad, didnt get any it seems :)


Posted By: Onat42
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Kingy Kingy wrote:

Originally posted by Onat42 Onat42 wrote:

ha! 

got them, only 5 but havent had more :)

payed 10.55 or 10.65 something like that
Once the P2P market becomes available, if you can sell them for 15PED, you can get approx 7 months of interest after 5 days!

tbh I want to hold them .... 0,1PED/Day I get this way ... just when they will start to pay?


Posted By: MegaMuppet
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 2:00pm
Hi all,

DEPs are now added to your vaults. If your bid hasn't been successful then funds have been credited back to your balance. Please check your vaults/transaction histories. If you feel something does not add up then please raise a support ticket (rather than posting here).

DEPs sold back to EP will NOT be automatically recirculated. We do not anticipate people being inclined to use this option rather than the P2P trade option. However should they do then it wouldn't be in the best interest of remaining DEP holders if EP were to recirculate them immediately.

EP owners do not participate in bidding/trading of DEPs. EP reps can do so if they wish.

Next batch of DEPs will be announced at least 5 days prior to start of bidding. We will keep an eye on how CF is developing to give users the chance to build up sufficient balance. Therefore I wouldn't want to narrow it down to a more specific time frame than outlined in earlier posts.

Good weekend all!


Posted By: Kingy
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Onat42 Onat42 wrote:

0,1PED/Day I get this way ... just when they will start to pay?
You could be a poet, you just didn't know it, did you mean it to rhyme, you bowl full of slime?

Enjoy your PED!


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Using Chrome and clearing all browsing history, makes CrowdFlower work! PS I've got my first referral and soon all this will be mine!


Posted By: Tia
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 2:05pm
DEPs will pay everyday at around 11 AM GMT. This task is assigned to an automated service on the server which kicks of at that time.


Posted By: Norian
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2014 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Sluggo Sluggo wrote:

Norian I have posted several times now in the forums that anyone needing a cashout out, especially the larger amounts to let me know and  can accomodate them.

sluggo

Not 2 weeks ago...


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My EU blog -  http://entropianorian.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - http://entropianorian.blogspot.com



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