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VR Jobs and Neverdie

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adrastos View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 10:26pm
Many are upset with MindArk not finishing projects it promised or started such as the CLD estates, space transportation, etc. But here in this thread, Neverdie opens discussion on the creation of virtual jobs (in entropia and elsewhere). Whether you're upset or not, offering your opinion to our supposed VR President on ways to help stimulate the economy, improve EU, and/or create virtual jobs would probably help. This thread also discusses the public transport idea, and those opinions could be offered there as well.

So, as far as things to discuss here, I have three questions for you:

1)What do you guys think of this taxing some (or all) tp's idea? Neverdie also suggested an idea for TP's to remain free but for there to be an option for players to receive a buff from the TP's by paying extra. 
2) What ideas or features do you think would create jobs (or paying work) in EU? 
3) What do you think the list of priorities of things MA should work on is (from most to least important) and why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrastos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 10:37pm
Curious and looking for discussion on this, but if nothing else I can collect everyone's ideas and send them to Neverdie myself. Maybe add a vote tally to every idea when I post it in his thread/email it to him.

So if you like someone else's idea, be sure to say so by saying something like "1 vote for (poster's name)'s (poster's idea)".
ie: "1 vote for Adrastos' employment/looking for work tab or terminal. It'll help existing professions find work easier and more seemlessly than existing systems."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barnesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 7:43am
I'm not really into the VR jobs and Neverdie been the president and what not. But i am interested in responding to a few points you mentioned. 

So first of the bat, Been upset with MindArk for X,Y and Z. 
No i can't really be upset with, at the end of the day their trying to run a business and make money. No not make 20 million in a month profit money, but they still need an income to pay the bills, workers and have money to invest in the company's future. 
While i do believe they can implement these changes a whole lot better and make the game more enjoyable. They jump from idea to idea which is taking money away from the user, which is not what users want, without them getting mad, so that they deposit even more. As soon as a system is working, they need to move onto the next idea to get more deposits. I do believe they have a small team that follows up and patch fix alot of these ideas, and as the team adjusts to the new code, they're able to fix the issues faster and have a better end result. 
I'll be honest that i don't know anything about how to do a business model like this, there is no other company that has really done it right, so you do have to give them leeway. Just my 2 pec.

Ill leave the VR job stuff following that and go straight to the questions

1) Tp taxes - Its a step in the right direction, now i wasn't around when Tps weren't a thing so i don't know how playing without tps would have an effect, but i do feel there is to many tps around calypso. This dips into question 2, but when i was starting out i ran a taxi, fee was 6 pec per K, my only sales came from people needing a tp, if there wasn't so many tps, so limit it to PA, the start locations, twins, boars, and a few more spread around the cont so that there is no huge areas of the map to travel through due to a lack of tps. All of a sudden, flight becomes a requirement, so new players now have a required job, taxi, then the mind force power teleportation comes back for instant travel without tps, that brings back mind force set skills, and that brings sweat back into use, so sweat prices go back up at least a little bit.

I don't think taxing will help out as its just a money sink, money goes into tp is like it going into tt- just out of the game, where as taking out that option, and putting players back into filling that requirement, it lets the money flow between people, there is still money going out of the game with fuel and ME and then mining the force nexus and ect.

If i had to put a vote i'd say no, there is no gain for the players for taxes, i doubt that money goes back to the player base - besides paying the bills - its just another money sink that's going to push more players away.
If you take out the excessive amounts of tp's i would say yes, as that allows us, the player, to set up trade, to replace it, to make some profit that allows us to trade with the next player. 

and this flows into 2 - creating jobs / paying work in EU. 
Well we already do, its just that a combination of game mechanics designed to skip player trade + a lack of players willing to work for long periods of time sometimes without profit.

Heres a few of the jobs that were available to new F2p players  
Sweat - Taxi - Trader - Fap - Looter  

Everyone of them could be picked up by just about anyone, and given time, will turn out a nice regular profit
Then Tps come in - Taxi's are now almost useless, just the very new players doing tp runs
This also had the side effect of largely lowering the use of mind force - lowering sweat prices 
There's the auction house, which makes selling easy, put the item up and let it sell. It takes out alot of the player interaction needed to sell and buy products
Hunter / miner -> Trader -> Crafter - >Trader -> Hunter / Miner

Yes the hunter and miner can directly trade with the crafters and vice verse. 
For your more quicker trades, right as your done with your main job, you'd go speak with a trader because he was there waiting for you to finish, instead of you waiting for the hunter / miner to log in and maybe even waiting for them to do a run, before you can buy. AH lets people skip this for a smaller price, i like the function of AH, but i think it automates too much of a section of the game and the player interaction, and i believe it hampers this game due to its RCE nature. 
Yet i know its really helpful for when the traders don't have what you need, or your not at a traders place - twins and you are way out from a tp but have an auc point. It lets people sell / buy even if they don't play the game for some few days.
Can't live without it, but can't live with the flaws of it. So this is one i can't stand on one side of the fence. No i don't know how to fix it either.

Fapper - ye i know that this hasn't been replaced heavily, but this is a skill set limited early on by your skill and item. Which cost ped, a fair amount to. With the other jobs above limited down by the system, how does a player get the ped to first try and learn how to fap, then the rest that follows if they wish to try it. I know trader you really do need alot of ped to get a fair income, but you can start with as little as 10ped and still get going, with fapping this isn't the case. Its not just slow, its almost non-existent.  

And looter, killed off, literally by tt items, i wasn't around when the pills weren't here, but my mentor would tell me that he would pay his new students 5ped an hour to loot while he hunts. And many hunters would do this, another avenue of income for new players.

Most other jobs start to be come departures of the main 3 professions, or are far more advanced then just starting out members. 

So when i hear people going we need more jobs in EU, i think the wrong question is been asked, we need to look at how we fix our old jobs, without upsetting large numbers of our community.

And no, you can't say look at how many people use it, because they choose the path of least resistance, they will take the free TP, over waiting for a taxi, and then discussing payment and finding someone who agrees to it.  

I know in some cases, we can't just go back, because that will kill the game, i.e. taking tps out, so with this old loss of ped back, people will stop depositing and the chain of events flow.

But instead of taking steps to invent 'new' jobs we can start with fixing some of our older jobs

Keep the circle of ped flowing through everyone by forcing trade and interaction, don't slow it down by automating aspects and having the ped taken out in there. 

sorry for the long speal 

edit: 
3) no i don't have any forum of priorities for MA, because my opinion is not in line with that of the world MA has intended to build, and my opinion will in some forum, have a bias that benefits my play style over other players play style and the game as a whole 
"It'll be fun" they said! But now, i have no Ped :(

EP goals:
Have lots of EPCC:
Got : None, They took em all man, they took em all!!!

Thanks for the great site Tia!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2016 at 8:15pm
Ok.  I am only about half a year in and, at the risk of becoming a laughing stock, I have a few ideas that are running through my mind that I will throw out there.  I don't know if they are possible or not, but here goes.  

First are the odd skills that I don't understand, like the promoter skill.  I don't understand the purpose of this skill.  What is promoted - hunting parties?  Can a person use the skill to promote anything, and how does this skill increase?  Why not allow events that can be promoted like races.  Is it possibel for someone to incerase this skill by promoting fun competitions that people can participate in.  It can be like: first to reach a beacon on top of some hill,  Winner gets something valuable.  Or, alow an avitar to create a challenging climbing wall or something of their own that they can really use this skill in promoting their own games.  I see shops, but why not have attractions like those that I have mentioned.  There is a nightclub, why not a smaller attraction like a rad paintjob competition, judged by other avitars.  Am I just missing these things or are they not possible.

I see most people sweating, or hunting, or mining, some are even pirating, but where are the prophessions like  inventing, discovering, developing (land and new materials).  Why are there not construction jobs, body guards, security companies, bakers, city engeneers, etcetera. 

How about earning a ped or two locating items like geocashing, or real treasure hunt events, where clues are given to the participants and having the item locked out to non-participants.  

I see people makeing weapons, armor, etc. but it seems to be limited to game designs.   Why isn't it possible to discover new equipment based on needs of the game.  Why can't someone create a better sweat gathering device, or create a new profession on their own like, I don't know, Hey I am historian an gather information about a planet, so for a fee I will archive your sepcial information, or I want to be a historian, who will 'promote' my archiving skills.  

This game has been evolving, I feel it is time to move it to a higher level.  Why don't we have a singing competition where real pleople play their own recorded music and sing live in the backround.  That could be an event that might draw some people to it and the promoter can gain skill in that.  The game can take a percentage of it.

I call for either a broadening of the possibilities within the game that will open it up to a wider audiance, and therefore to a greater potential for economic growth, or educating the players to these possibilities if they exist.  Not everyone wants to hunt, or mine, or stand around for hours sweating; increase the options.
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From a business perspective, MA needs to implement interesting ideas that brings people to the game. However, with the RCE nature, those ideas need a potential for people to profit, and a decrease of the average player ped in a fair and balanced manner.

With that been said, when you go we need construction jobs, body guards, bakers, civil engineers, we need to be careful.

Some plots of land take upwards of 10K to buy, USD, so when you go and spend a car's worth of money on land, a player doesn't want the faf of having to deal with finding a group of reliable construction people - and it would have to be a side profession since not everyone will have building jobs full time. But they need a plan so then you got to find someone who will draw a plan to follow, but the skill limits means who ever unlocks the most room types will get more contracts (assuming you unlock rooms with skill ups.) 

Then how would construction be done? just place items in a particular way that match the plan? Or have a skill based impact, where you just hit a button and it puts it in wall by wall with random marks and flaws in it. Which means that low level people are left out cause they do flawed work. If they can fix the flaws, then it costs more ped that the owner will not want to pay.

Then to have security guards come in, well you would need to hire a full team of 10-20 people and have them work certain hours like a job, which is a lot harder to force in a game, even EU, so then you need casuals too. Then you need a group of supervisors you trust to check security is on at all times. So now you can have upwards of 30 people been paid to work on an hourly base, so that is another form or lost revenue, decreasing the chances that the average player will buy a land plot to begin with. 

If this is the case, then there needs to be a reason for the law enforcement to exist, so that means theft and vandalism must be included in the game. or something there off, and if thats the case, then you will have f2p players just rushing buildings cause they re-spawn in 10 seconds until the guards run out of ammo or their costs are so high that the owner cant pay them profit, so they log of. then there will be low points in guard rotations so they could just be over whelmed. The owner has to pay for everything since the guards could have killed thousands of avatars, it can't be their fault really. 

That's a long list of issues to ad a realistic system behind a plot claim and house building section. Remember these need to seem attractive to players, with even these one its hard to make such things like that when infinite re-spawns are a thing. Let alone with such a deep cost curve long after buying, some returns would be needed, and that means another system - besides shop because lets be honest they don't make bank, so that players could sustain that house rotation

While bringing it closer to real life makes the game more attractive and gives more options, you got to remember the draw backs of a game, you can't really put in law and chaos into a world where literally anyone can go, with a group of people and just repeatedly run at security until a hole is formed. 

As for bakers, i don't know if viable food system could be implemented, since people would want to farm / produce goods at a profit, and f2p would need food so they don't die, which means if they don't get a strong income off the bat, means they can't really play for free, this also limited people who fap for decay and lower end traders since they would need to sustain food. But i have thought about this idea before so its not bad.

As for the treasure hunts.  The balance of income for the players, making it attractive, vs the cost to participate.

And for the radios, there exists different versions of this already, but they're website based as far as i know.

Sorry for the long rant, but i like an in-depth response :) 
"It'll be fun" they said! But now, i have no Ped :(

EP goals:
Have lots of EPCC:
Got : None, They took em all man, they took em all!!!

Thanks for the great site Tia!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 5:45am
I can see your points, however, I think you are approaching my ideas with a preset mindset.  You are saying it would not be possible to implement something that would cost a car in real life if those people would then have to pay for the privilege of having something built on it, when in reality (as I have heard, correct me if I have been misinformed) several people do this with spaceships and sell to mechanics and pilots in order for them to build up skill in these areas, while gaining free passage.  The concept is the same with what I am talking about.  

People spend hours sweating, or they deposit in hopes of making enough to get to a comfortable position.  I am saying why not make building a building the same as sweating, or securing that building like sweating.  Every little bit contributed to the construction of the building would not be an expense to the owner, it would be a form of income, if the developer says buy my hammers and nails, construct for me and you will increase your skills.  

Then you have someone manufacture hammers and nails on the open market to make a competitive profit.

My examples may not be the best, but I feel this current  way of earning ped gets old real fast for a lot of people.  Those who create and maintain Entropia, really need to consider new options that will give the newcomers more options so it doesn't get so boring in the beginning for the non-depositors.

I have been at this for half a year and still have to waist my time sweating, when I would rather be doing something else.  Stagnation brings decay.  Diversification brings growth.  It is a simple fact of nature.  And these changes don't have to take place overnight, but gradually.  Stimulate the economy of Entropia by making opportunities.

These things are already being done, just think how they can be done better.  Selling deeds based on the game's growth is one thing, but selling deeds (or whatever) based on the spirit of the entrepreneur holds more potential.  Make that easier and Entropia's economy will naturally grow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barnesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 7:50am
Okies i think i understand what you mean

So if we make building like sweating, where its a form of income from MA and not the land owner, MA has set up sweating as the only free income from the game, everything else thats profitable, comes from the expense of other players. So either the Building would have to be very slow, or a loss of income, which puts us back at square 1.

If the building is super slow, then whats the downside of not having it done that it would be worth pulling all the sweaters away from the sweat camp and flying over to your building. If its building an NPC building, how would this system grind work, and why.

I may have missed the mark with what your saying again, sorry if i did. 

Just remember, everything within the game is designed to take ped away from you, so that you deposit, MA isn't going to put systems in that give ped to you. But they will put systems that give you the chance to take ped from other players, and profit, after decay systems.

Work with that mindset, and you understand more of the decisions they make 
"It'll be fun" they said! But now, i have no Ped :(

EP goals:
Have lots of EPCC:
Got : None, They took em all man, they took em all!!!

Thanks for the great site Tia!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 4:00pm
I am just brainstorming here because I thought that was the reason for posting the topic.  So I will continue to stir up the winds and let the lightning bolts fly as they may.  

My underlying idea is to stimulate economic growth by providing more diverse opportunity and what I am saying is that the opportunities as they stand are not that appealing.

There are two types of players depositors and non-depositors.  I am a non, but my mentor is a huge depo.  If I had money to spare I might become a depo, but as it stand I can't.  So what am I to do in the interim?  My only option is sweating, but I have gotten very tired of sitting around listneing to people complain about circle dynamics for hours.  No wonder there are so many afkers.

I started as a miner, but that got old, too, because I was reduced to sweating in the end as I believe happens to most people.  So as I progress through the game which is very slow in and of itself, I am faced with only two choices.  Either I can deposit, which is not an option for me (and I wonder how many others are in the same situation, based on the sweating that goes on there are quite a few), or I continue to sweat for meager return and maximum drain.  

By the way, can anyone tell me why the sweating is always limited to 4 or less.  I want the opportunity to by a machine that will drain a large animal of twenty in the same time it takes to drain a smaller animal.  Gees, at least increase it to 5 for goodness sake.

It's like your little blurb at the end of your messages, which I don't understand by the way,  "They told me it would be fun, but now I have no ped." So back to what?  You guessed it sweating.  I think many potential future depositors quit because of all the drudgery of getting started.

Many are pulled in by the potential of making money, but soon realize everything is geared toward the opposite and what I am saying is that the game needs to be diversified so that people will stick around long enough to make it past the initial intro stages.  I have known people who gave up because there really is no chance of getting ahead unless you have a lot of money to begin with.  I have often considered giving up because there is not enough to keep me from getting bored.

Instead I try to effect positive change by sharing my ideas.  But I run into opposition instead of constructive cooperative development of practical solutions.

So my idea of building in its raw state has probems, lets look at developing it instead of saying what is wrong with it.

What about farming.  People like growth.  Instead of being a society of hunter gatherers, why can't we develop and branch out into farming, or industry.  Farmers can grow instead of traipsing around trying to find fruit.  Then they can sell that to bakers, who bake the nutribars or whatever.  Then the Bakers use the profit to expand or whatever.  

All I am saying is that if mining, or resource gathering can be part of the game, then why not others that I have suggested.

I have been dying to by a resource gathering machine (can't remember the name right now), but I don't ever get enough ped to do so.  But I wonder, why is it that that is not one of the starter missions or at least an option as mining is?

There is not enough thought going into making the game interesting to the newcomers and therefore a great deal of potential is lost, I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barnesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 8:53pm
Im not trying to be negative or the opposition of constructive ideas, Im trying to be Fair, honest and open. 

Any idea of profiting at the lower levels is borderline impossible, because once you level up those skills and have access to better items/resources ect, the chance increases. So if the average player can profit at it, then the more hardcore / depo players will grind it out to max and just make profit, which will kill the game. 

This idea of getting more per sweat, for example, is a hard sell to a company when it is the only consistent free income, and again, this income does come from other players. Besides, sweat prices have gone from around 16ped/k down to just under 2P/k. This drop has occurred to when they sped the process up, the increase in players - so more non-depos sweating it out - and no doubt botters.

If they did speed it up even slightly, you'll properly find that sweat prices would almost half yet again. Thats how over saturated the market is right now.

Farming's a little tough, but i have thought about it to, it goes back to that driving factor, since to own a farm you need to buy a plot - bigger the better, then you need to buy trees, fertilizer  could properly be use as the decay factor, but the output of the food TT would have to be lower then the fertilizer, while i know food still has bugger all TT so it might work, but hows the loot system going to work. By tree or just have the fruit drop alot more often in the radius of the tree? 

With this new source of fruit, fruit prices will dropped - depending on how much you get from the farm, and if tied to sweet stuff for pets, those prices will drop too, making it less profitable for not the bakers, since they can just drop it in equal prices, but the new farmer, not to mention the farmer starts with a the cost of the land, trees (most likely) and decay is racking up while the fruit is coming out. Oh and we would need to change how sweet-stuff is made, since it just comes out of the refiner and i have made it before, selling it is just slow, so i looked for other means.

As a side note, how much ped would you have on you? 
"It'll be fun" they said! But now, i have no Ped :(

EP goals:
Have lots of EPCC:
Got : None, They took em all man, they took em all!!!

Thanks for the great site Tia!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 11:48pm
I just can't get a point of agreement from you in any case so I am just going to quit.  I am trying to throw out ideas that might have a chance of making a difference, but not in your world because you are a naysayer in any case as far as I can see it.  You only look at the down side, while I try to present viable ideas to the one who posed the question.  Any one of my ideas have potential, but you see yourself as some kind of master economist, so what is the point.  In any of the VR Jobs I have presented there are viable processes or situations that could work for them, if they would be thought out thoroughly, yet you always choose to shoot them down based on how you seeing them come to be a reality in the game.  I give up because I am tired of wasting my time with you and with sweating.

And since you asked the answer is less than 1 ped and that is a shame for someone who has been playing for half a year.  I should not be forced to only one way of earning money in a world where there are unlimited possibilities.  

So congratulations, you have defeated me and my lame ideas once again.  And in case you are listneing, powers to be, you have just lost a potential depositor because I am tired of wasting my time so I am definitely not going to waste my money on this lame game.

Goodbye cruel Euniverse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barnesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 3:01am
If you are leaving the game over the fact that i pointed out all the big problems with your ideas that MA would have to overcome, then you were never going to succeed in the first place.

This is not a game you walk into and go i'm going to f2p and make money. The f2p aspect is to let you trial most planet side activities and let you get a feel for the community, after the first week, you have 3 choices, keep f2p and take a slow grind, depo semi regularly and cruise along casually or if you feel like this game isn't for you, just stop playing, there's no shame in it.

Now i feel like i've been fair with you, i have only pointed out the flaws and issues that MA would have to overcome, and they need to be worth doing for MA to get some profit. This idea of making the game easier and more starting friendly can't really be done, this is a game that you put $20 down monthly and plot along and eventually you make friends and meet good traders and in a couple years you find a little rotation that keeps you afloat so your deposits can go into moving forward while your moderate skill set covers your decay bills most times.

This isn't a 'Lame' game, its a game designed around a really nesh idea, now your gaming style just doesn't work with this game, im glad i was able to stop you from depo'ing into a game that you weren't going to like, but to make you quit was not my intention, but to give you a perspective on the developers point of few. 

As for your less then 1 ped, didn't you say you tried mining early, do you understand that to mine often you need at least a couple hundred ped to rotate on bombs alone, not to mention equipment and good skills, knowledge on whats selling well and where to find those resources? 

Not trying to be mean, but you have not spent enough time understanding the current systems to have a chance. To put it into perspective,  i played for around 2 years, not consistently as i do find it boring to play for long periods of time, so i generally had a 3 month on/off rotation, which is fine. Before i put money into the game, and when i did, it went into AUDs as an investment, and not to go mining/hunting with, because i felt like i didn't know enough to get to the rotation before i ran out of ped again.

If you truly wish to F2P, what you want to do is spend about a week straight sweating, you'll end up like 20 ped if your fast enough, and then go into the slow grind of trading, or get the UL fap from the icaurs dung and start fapping for decay, and get your ped of tips for good service.

Entropia universe is a game played  over years, just like investments in real life, you get back what you put in 10 years ago. 
"It'll be fun" they said! But now, i have no Ped :(

EP goals:
Have lots of EPCC:
Got : None, They took em all man, they took em all!!!

Thanks for the great site Tia!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 5:57am
I did not threaten to leave the game because you pointed out anything, since you didn't really point out anything valid, or counterpointed, or even put on the drawing board for discussion.  My posts were originally intended as a response toward the original question so the developers could at least discuss the different ways of possibly implementing them and then decide feasibility.

I threatened  leaving because I am tired of putting up with know-it-all people like you who like to push people around and degrade them just because you think you have all the answers.  There is never one side to anything, but you think you have the only side to any problem and, that is that, anyone else's ideas are stupid and you have to prove them stupid using only your single point of view, or your own idea of how you envision implementation.  You would do good to stop thinking yours is the only worthy viewpoint.

I am tired of only having one way to earn ped in the game that ensures my ability to stay in the game while I am waiting on my own situation to develop to a point that I can deposit and give myself a chance at doing more than just sweating.  So, I was excited at the prospect that there might be a different way and I really wanted to be a part of that, but you apparently cannot envision any way other than your way.  Sweating, as you know because you have described its decline, is a failing concept and I see the evidence of that in the very fact that the original question was asked.  Hence your one-sided, un-discussed defusing of my ideas is nothing but counterproductive.

You seem to think that there is only one way for the owners to make money and that is off of people making deposits constantly, but I believe statistically those who stick around are the ones who deposit most and invest more over time.  Yet you see nothing wrong with losing the potential future depositor, in the name of seeking their money over their extended participation. 

There is shame in encouraging people to 'just stop playing'.  Who's side are you on, here?  

Making it easier in the beginning, or at least more interesting, are things that need to be discussed and mulled over and not shut down by some tyrannical know-it-all.  You say that the experienced will exploit it, but that is again a one-sided response, when anyone with a brain knows it is possible to limit things within a game in a myriad of ways based on a variety of player attributes, or levels. If they wanted they could make it possible to take out the largest creature with a very small knife, based on the stats of each.  Don't tell me outright this would do that, because it is not so in a digital world.

Standing in a circle waiting for the well to run dry and then on someone to bring the new well, while getting killed and waiting to heal is not most people's idea of a role playing game.  There has to be steady progress over a shorter period of time to keep something growing.  Who wants to play a game that requires you to spend a week, or more, at a time standing around rather than actually playing.  You don't plant a seed and then expect it to sprout overnight and provide fruit.  You have to water it and then when it grows strong it will yield it's fruit.  Now by watering I mean making it easier for a newbee to stay hunting, to stay active and involved in exciting ways.  But it seems invariably so that everyone in the beginning is relegated to sweating.  All of this is counterproductive and not worthy of participating in, because it will eventually die.  Sadly it will die because of single-minded people like you.  In actuality, the owners should be making it easier in the beginning and harder the longer you participate.  This is the way of these types of games.  It always gets harder as you go along, everyone expects that.  Doesn't it make more sense that someone who has invested a great deal of time will be more willing to fork over some money to keep doing it because they are having fun.  Why is this game different?  It, for some strange reason, is easier the longer you play and harder to get started in.  This is backwards.  Reverse these and you will see growth that will be unprecedented.

Have you once in all of this back and forth ever asked me how I envision implementing my ideas?  I think you must realize all of the responses you gave were based on ways you envision my ideas being implemented. Perhaps it is because your own patterns of thinking got in the way.  I suggest you stop giving your opinion, and maybe others will be more willing to share their ideas.  Try having a positive thought for once and allow people to say how they envision things changing, or at least shut up and get out of the way.

I didn't expect this game to be easy, but I didn't expect to spend most of my time sweating, when I 'd rather be hunting.  Games are leisure activities, make them so, and it will be easier for people to fork over their money.  The off chance that one might strike it big will only be icing on the cake. The owners would be wise to take the lead of casinos or Las Vegas. Give freebies to get them spending.  Make the initial guns last longer, even double than those of the purchased ones.  Make the original mining equipment last twice a s long too.  A happy camper is a staying camper, and I think most new campers are down right disappointed.

You got anything to say to that?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 6:26am
Neverdie, take a lead from the great country of the United States of America, in it's growing days.  Let there be a rush to claim land and on that land give an opportunity to grow whatever the new owner wants, a business, a farm, a ranch to grow pets, a mine, a school, a church, a chance.  Stimulate, by granting something that everyone will want - opportunity.  Make it free, but tax the results, if you need to, just give your players a chance to build their own enterprise.  Stimulate, in many areas, but mostly in the those that gice an opportunity to realize the potential of the American Dream.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrastos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 12:25am
So to recap.

Barnsey's concrete suggestions:
-getting rid of auto-loot pills to bring back the looter profession
-encouraging taxi use through either less tp's...but then you said we shouldn't eliminate tp's.because that will piss people off.
abstract:
- fix old jobs before worrying about creating new ones

Ghostier's concrete suggestions:
-farming (I'll upvote that, though it seems like too much of a money sink for MA. there would have to be a way for it be profitable for people and MA. for example if it's taxed at 10%, 90% of the goods that magically appear are still a money sink for MA)
-security details for land and area owners (MA/neverdie is thinking of doing this with a conscription/defense of certain areas job, powered by tp taxes)
-contruction jobs and allowing people to build, design, and gather resources to make buildings
-new items for people to create and sell
abstract:
-broadening of the possibilities within the game that will open it up to a wider audience

So, first off. Calm down Ghostier. Part of the point of this thread is to also discuss these ideas. Through discussion we can improve and come to consensus on ideas. This isn't about shaming and no one wants you to just give up or stop playing. You're allowed to share your opinions, but so is he...that's how discussion works. Instead of taking it as negativity and some sort of attack by him pointing out his opinion backed up by logic on why things wouldn't work, you should explain how you would implement those ideas to make them work.

You criticized Barnsey for not asking you how you would
implement your ideas...but you never explained how you would implement them yourself, many of them you still haven't and since you want someone to ask you to, I will. How would you implement things like farming, security details, and a construction industry? (bearing in mind that it can't cost either MA or players too much without a decent return) The construction and farming ideas are ones I like and have thought of as well, but I'm wrestling with a good way to implement them.

Second off. I can relate to your frustration sweating. However, in a RCE it just has to work like that if you can't or won't deposit. Perhpas later there will be more f2p jobs and that's part of what we're discussing, but for now that's about it.

Another thing I'd recommend is using entropia partner's service in conjuction with a 1-2 weeks sweating. The music channel here earns approx 1 PED a day if left on all day long. So in two weeks you'd have 14ish PED, and 10-40 PED from two weeks of straight sweating (depending how much time you put into it). That's 24-54 PED you can use to properly start just enjoying "leisure activities" for free. If you plan on hunting lower level however, from what I've read I'd recommend the mobs on Arkadia, they loot a bit better.

Third. I'll be throwing out some of my ideas for people to critique in a bit but I'm curious what you'd want to do to fix the taxi situation Barnesy since you're not in favor of eliminating tp's or taxing them to discourage use?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barnesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 3:39am
Good recap, alot more concise then i ever am Thumbs Up

By reading his text, the details he put gave me the impression he wanted to make it more life like. So i put the problems of implementing a real life simulation into the game, Which i have personally thought about several of these ideas or aspects of them - besides construction - but I've also thought it through from the side of the developers since they have to work to put it in. 

Ideas come from the 'that would be nice to have' side, the thought comes from 'how does that work for the devs' side

But when your thinking through your ideas, the best way to put it is to have the income come from other player not MA. 

The best example is actually taxi's system.

Taxi's make no money from the game, but from other players. But they spend ped on oil and replacement / repairs which in their own cycles go back to the game.

MA likes that flow, they do step in and supplement the player when you do tasks like mining/hunting ect, but then those systems tend to be heavily randomized with generally unsustainable returns.  So TT returns don't meet your ped decay rate every time. 
"It'll be fun" they said! But now, i have no Ped :(

EP goals:
Have lots of EPCC:
Got : None, They took em all man, they took em all!!!

Thanks for the great site Tia!!!
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